Linda, how would explain success of Charles Dowdings no-dig method using cardboard? so yes, sheet mulching is bad. Is the lower-oxygen environment created by tarp/cardboard sufficient to produce these pathogens? Bark mulch does. And if I only need 3-4 after planting, where would I put the extra? That is clearly problematic. Thanks! However, its a little more complicated than the setup you describe. I am a terrible gardener b/c I dont like to kill anything but also a kind human. Youll be happy to know that I recently got a load of woodchips (free, from Chip Drop!) Ive already started planting in one of the areas juxtaposed to where I want to chip. OMRI listed products undergo review to ensure that they comply with national organic standards. All fertilization is pumped through the water system. Is there any more information that you know of on how much of a concern this is? Corrugated is a combination of two exterior walls of thin Kraft paper (made from hardwood trees in NA) attached to a tissue like kraft corrugated interior of varying amplitude. Unfortunately, people who use this as a mulch are not paying attention to details on what might be more permeable. So it is going to be interesting not using Cardboard/Newspaper (10 sheets folded) or manure compost. Everything under it was dead dead dead by the time I bothered removing it. This worked surprisingly well and resulted in bags of compost that could be easily moved to its final use point. Many layers of cardboard will form incredibly dense forms of mycelial mats which can seed the surrounding soil for years to come with beneficial fungi and encourage processing of all types of pollutants. I am trying to consider the bigger ecological picture, rather than the experimental scientific minutiae.

Unfortunately, the bags werent a long term solution, quite the opposite when you consider the negative environmental impact of non-recyclable bags. Plots have wooden frames made of planks about 6 inch wide; that means 6 inch below the walking surface there is no divider between soil in the plots and soil underneath the paths.

Really, any paper product can be shredded for use in a compost pile. You should be. Just saying. Demonstration gardens are fine, but they should be labeled as such and without any suggestion that they are better than any other approach. We appreciate your kind comments! 2010 brought an extremely wet spring, periods of unusually high temperatures in the early part of the season, followed by long very dry periods and unusually high temperatures for longer than usual duration. p368038, https://gardenprofessors.com/mulch-murder-misinformation/, https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/resources/1543-measuring-biodegradability. How about using it to kill your lawn? Annoying arrogance dismissing many peoples useful observations. ft of lawn to landscape. As Ive told others on this post, you are providing anecdotal evidence.

Sorry I am late answering your question! I would say no less than 8. Termites like wood chips just fine, its not just a cardboard thing. (There have been a few publications supporting the use, but their quality is questionable at best and the publishing companies, like American Scientific Publishers, tend to be single suites located in strip malls.). I dont know what you mean. Im on the Oregon Coast for example and everyone I talk to swears landscaping fabric is the only way. Your focus should be targeted towards the weed and removing what it needs (light). If you can weed whack or mow the poison ivy safely, I would do that first. 12 inches) to keep the regrowth from ever reaching sunlight. Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pocket (Opens in new window), Barf! This use of damp cardboard may also permit easier gas diffusion (i.e.

Always remember, everything composts, it is our job to pile it up and plug some starts in it. Covers approximately 1000 square feet with one layer and 500 square feet with two layers. Thanks, Tanya, for taking the time to read the information with an open mind and think about it objectively. I have a question about the impact of using landscape fabric to suppress weeds on the vitality of soil in adjacent areas. About 2500 sq ft. is vegetable garden and orchard. So there is nothing to build on or exptrapolate from. Yes, you have to isolate your weed problem from adjacent weeds, so a root barrier is required. The latter is less contradictory as they did in fact study sheet mulching, but not with cardboard, rather plastics, particle board, etc. So what do you do if you already put down some cardboard or a few sheets of newspaper covered with soil and mulch a few months ago? It all sounds goodbut I would encourage you to do a soil test before you add compost. can be a great mulch. You get NO weeds with wood chips if you use a deep enough layer, and they dont interfere with water and gas movement like sheet mulches do. The pallet mulch is chipped from untreated clean wood pallets and coloredwith vegetable based dyes. So a few pine cones in a wood chip mix are fine, but they are not a replacement for wood chips. Is 4 of cedar chips adequate to address the weeds after trying to pull them again or is the 8-12 needed? My heritage is 200+ years of farming people, originating in northern hemisphere, yet, being relatively isolated on an island, off the mainland Australia. I have left plastic bags of mulch in my driveway more than once for a couple of weeks and when I go to move them, there are multiple worms under there. I used this under a (formerly) permanent 8x8 bin with reasonable success. The only way that any plant will survive that is if its attached to an underground rhizome system that supplies energy. Second question, youve stated several times that wood chips absorb and hold water and Im wondering how this is completely counter to my experiences. It makes sense that lasagna mulching can help create an environment (temp and moisture) that will increase earthworm carrying capacity. You dont want intact branch pieces, which could root. ), they apply anywhere. Im not asking about an extreme condition where diffusion is zero. You mentioned in another reply the potential for pathogens to develop in an anaerobic environment. Sorry, but no. This is a logarithmic scale. That will be published this year. Your study covers 16 days. Its well worth the initial work to get rid of 90% of the problem permanently. Bottom line is that this is not an issue for mulches of any sort. I use a couple inches of bark on top of the cardboard and am pleased with the look at feel. I did a blog post about these contraptions several years ago. There may be a short-term downside to its use in some contexts and it wont work in every situation, but its a tool we can use. Is there a correlation with growth/productivity and, if so, is there causality? I would prefer stainless steel, but thats pricey and harder to find size appropriate.

***An update on cardboard gas permeability.

Hi I am late to the discussion. What kinds of pathogens, and what harm might they do? What if you are starting with a weed-infested area? At the end of the season I plan to take the cardboard up and let nature do its thing in the FallI let the leaves fall and dont clean up until spring.

Wood chips + cardboard (the same as used above) Anecdotal research is more credible if it builds on other published research. Ive published on the technique of deep chip mulches and have used as much as 18. Bad idea? Nature doesnt dig with spades or rototillers, it digs with earthworms by attracting them with a mulch (fallen leaves, pine needles, wind-blown green and brown debris, and so on) or ground-covers. I do know that several of the members of the Garden Professors blog group on Facebook are from NC and do use wood chips, so that might be a good place to compare notes if you are so inclined. Im sorry, but this is just way too long for me to respond to. Hi! newly relocated, housebound & isolated at the moment due to vehicle problems, Im always seeking ways to save money, and, at same time am oh so desperately wanting to simply plant a vegie garden. Hi Linda! Sheet mulching, as compared to three-dimensional mulch (like arborist chips) is bad for soil life, period. Diffusion rate needs far more correlation to soil life before I can make that connection. You say there is nothing to support the use of cardboard so I guess you may subscribe to that view. Any scientific paper stating that diffusion rate limits soil health should share some insight into what diffusion rate is necessary. Feel free to download this fact sheet. Mimic the nature. This is why the fish dont de. Get updates on when we freshly brew our Actively Aerated Compost Tea (AACT) and its availability for purchase. B Flute cardboard comes in rolls (3-6 ft. wide) and is an ideal layer for sheet mulching to convert a lawn and/or suppress weeds. Be aware that there will still be weed seeds in the soil, so if you are planting anything yuo should retain mulch wherever you arent planting directly. I would agree with you if you said anecdotal evidence was less-reliable, but irrelevant, no. https://pubs.extension.wsu.edu/using-arborist-wood-chips-as-a-landscape-mulch-home-garden-series. Hi Linda,are you aware of any scientific studies involving the use of cardboard for fungal growth? Your iron deficient plants may be collateral damage from excess phosphate. As there is zero research showing the effect of cardboard as a mulch, and lots of research showing the effectiveness of deep coarse mulches, thats the only reliable, science-based recommendation that can be made. Thanks for your thoughts.

The point of this post and all the others is that you dont *need* the cardboard or newspaper: there is no demonstrated, added benefit published in the literature. Im not sure how big each EU would have to be though. just as you would do if you were seeding a lawn. Or will they be absorbed by garden plants and present danger to our health? But cardboard is still a useful addition to a compost pile as a source of carbon no? Or does newspaper harm soil organisms like cardboard does? I live above San Diego at 1500. Ive had experience with sheet mulching, and without it as well. The nematodes, protozoa, bacteria and fungi that form the soild food web are even more vulnerable to changes in oxygen and moisture levels than the plants and critters you *can* see. Anything that is covered with compost is pretty much decompsed, the stuff that is only covered with mulch is still intact, for the most part. It got me thinking, and I googled, and here we are Thankyou Linda (and everyone/discussion). The toxicity papers were citing paperboard not corrugated from my meager search. I will not use heavy duty pesticides as we dont want to contaminate the ground water & well. How anaerobic does it have to be? Do you just leave it at this point? I believe that certain worm species will do well with lasagna gardening and that anecdotal evidence is relevant due to the absence of scientific data either way. The garden area is quite large, so I am not sure how feasible it would be to obtain enough wood chips to employ the deep wood chip method that you normally recommend.

This entire process is very attractive to nematodes (earthworms and other soil animals), bacteria and fungi, which as they crawl toward and through the cardboard actually open up pockets where gasses and moisture can transfer, both from the atmosphere and from subsoil. I wouldnt say they are good because those same plants also would thrive under other mulches which you would see in a replicated field experiment. We can assume though need to demonstrate through research that reduction of water movement would likewise be affected. What is your understanding of this issues? Just because it worked for you doesnt make it right. Ive also left cardboard in my driveway and it got rained on and when I moved it, I found worms under the cardboard, on top of the pavement. You get plenty of weeds with just wood mulch. Should I soak first and how long ? Absent that information, all we have is published evidence about worm behavior, comparative mulch characteristics, and cardboard manufacture. Thank you. Well, it depends on whether you want to follow science-based practices or not. Plastic is never organic nor is cardboard board.

Its not going to hurt your plants. So dont assume your lasagna mulching draws earthworms to your garden. This is for a relatively short period (likely to be a few months) whilst the cardboard breaks down. This is true of any practice in any field that appears to contradict the current state of the science. Hi Ariel So why do you argue against it? You must keep it covered and light free until you are ready to plant. Given that a single sheet of cardboard has been demonstrated to depress gas exchange between the soil and the atmosphere (compared to arborist wood chips), there just arent any compelling reasons to continue to use it regardless of contaminants. Compost does not make a good mulch. It really is nothing like cardboard mulch as it covers a very small soil area.

rationalize. I think Id build a grid out of wood so it would contain the mulch and separate the units. I recommend a soil test before you add anything else to your soil. Thanks for your great work! The Truth Wears Off; Without some sort of comparative experimental study you can only guess what your cardboard is doing. Its hardly a mulch thats going to nurture soil life.. Otherwise, you are wasting your time. In either case, if I lay 4 of mulch over the whole parkway to suppress the goutweed, will it harm the trees? Are you aware of anything scientific that shows cardboard is detrimental to plants or soil life? It consists of two layers of linerboard sandwiching a layer of accordion-like fluting material. Such microbes include pathogens that are found in poorly drained, low oxygen soil. If so, it will be very difficult to control. They use oxygen and release carbon dioxide just like other non-photosynthetic organisms. I will fill the 8 inch diameter holes with the cardboard chips/shred. I worry about unfriendly chemicals on some cardboards. Anecdotal is exactly the right term in this case. What you have is a demonstration garden. Just say no! to roundup. In the study is the cardboard 2D or shredded? They can be found at appliance stores or bike shops. Copyright 2022 Lyngso Garden Materials, Inc. All Rights Reserved. You will need to use a bare soil, ideally prepared as shown here: https://gardenprofessors.com/how-to-get-rid-of-your-lawn/. So we can theorize that a healthy soil biota, rich in plant, animal, and microbial life, will become less so when covered with cardboard compared to being covered with wood chips. It is also a remnant product of the patriarchy that has subjugated wise women and country folk for hundreds if not thousands of years. This is a mulch that would mimic nature more acurately than a 12 layer of woodchip. If this were true, then every forest would be dead. (comparable to cardboard? Thanks for your response. But it is just a single layer of cardboard. What would you recommend be put underneath 24 diameter open bottom plastic drums to keep root growth from nearby plants out of the compost contained within? My intuition is that it will be less restrictive for gas and water transfer than cardboard, but I am curious if you have anything to add. Lanscape fabric is paid for and boxes are free.

Weve all observed that earthworms crawl to the soil surface during heavy rains; this is due in part to water filling their burrows and reducing oxygen availability (Chuang and Chen demonstrated this nicely in 2008). After reading through 5 years worth of comments to the effect of Dont use cardboard b/c it reduces oxygen, now I find out that tarps are okay because soil life just moves in? Also, common earthworms are technically an exotic species in America. Its really not an issue! Of course, the rate at which they break down probably depends on a whole range of variables including the exact composition of the leaves, the soil organisms present, how damp the substrate is above and below. Then Ill dump a bunch of mulch on topwith no cardboard! What Ive summarized here and in previous posts is based on published research and, in terms of cardboard, standard manufacturing processes. Having just started a garden, I have exactly no knowledge, anecdotal or experimental, about the cardboard question. Ill guarantee thats what you were seeing under the plastic. Scavenged cardboard boxes make an ideal weed barrier. As a careful gardener I always check that the cardboard isnt white, doesnt have a plastic coating, the plastic tape and staples are removed and it is of the variety that is biodegradable (as per a comment made previously by one of your readers, who manufactures cardboard.). I too have used coir in restoration, but primarily to hold wood chips in place until they hydtrate and become stabilized by roots and mycorrhizae. I do think it is crucial not to overload the area with organic materials, but all I know is that there is a crap ton of worms when I dig around. I have found this post and thread to be fascinating and informative. These will replace the bags literally size for size as the bins were designed for large bags to be placed inside. Its spores can cause death in chickens. You can speed up the process by poking holes in it with a pitchfork or some other tool. The cardboard is generally only used in the first season to suppress weeds, thereafter (at least in the UK) the no dig method uses compost (not cardboard) as the main mulch each year, which is rich in life and biodiversity. Mostly sunny areas. The weakness in the approach is me being consistent with a busy work load distracting me elsewhere. Hi Joseph All comments must be approved before theyre posted, and I dont approve comments that are derogatory or promote a belief in the absense of supporting science. When stuck together, as a damp mass, they could have fewer air pockets and are certainly less three dimensional than woodchip. First, under what context is the rate of diffusion critical to soil or plant life? You can email me for a pdf file. Yes, @Nolan Archer, we are stopping weeds, and as surprising as it may seem, it works a treat. Cardboard does not help anything because it restricts water and air exchange. Here is the quote from your abstract: Second, lay cardboard sheets in a chess board pattern with alternating areas of sheets and no sheets. Space under low shrubs is ideal as it is protected from foot traffic and can be easily colonized by ground nesters. Allow me to apologize for the tone of my kneejerk cardboard loving response.

Wouldnt this also be true of a one-time application of a single layer of cardboard? Sonia, lets try this one instead. Im so glad Im not the only one who read all the comments! Sorry, it doesnt.

cardboard towel paper There are many studies on the benefits that arborist wood chips provide to soil. Then, the field work can be better analyzed. Dear Linda, from these comments I can see that many people take your advice and as you are a revered scientist they trust your expertise and credentials. Unfortunately fungi do not produce oxygen they are not photosynthetic. I just read about 25% of the comments here, and I have to say you are one of the most patient people on the planet. I love that its still going strong after so many years. Ditto, to what Mike said. It is discussed a great deal in many of Paul Stamets books. Hi Linda! I thought sheet mulching would be a good way to get rid of it without trying to dig it up or using round-up (which is what most folks are told to do where I live). If you look at the photo at the bottom of this post (https://gardenprofessors.com/mulch-murder-misinformation/) you will see what such experimental setups look like. None of them should be inhaled, so if you are working around your chip pile its a good idea to wear a mask.

Its a great way to use invasive species for something useful. Keep your soil no matter what.

A thick layer of mulch will kill your lawn. I dont have much experience with the cardboard causing problems. Im talking from my non-scientific but practical experience. In the US the soil organic matter content of virgin soils was often in the 10%-12% range. In your recent post, you stated, all sheet mulches are going to restrict water and air movement. Have you considered comparing also with gas diffusion in condition similar to forest, with layers of dead leaves? To ensure the compost does not include biosolids, we work with vendors who sell compost that has been certified by a third party. But do not frame that sense as some sort of truth upheld by a dearth of evidence. Drip irrigation is beneath the cardboard.

In terms of permeability: To be used effectively, cardboard should be placed over existent plants, like grass or other weeds (usually useful wildflowers themselves). Can you repost? We have tried physically removing the plants in the past, but they seem to come back with a vengeance, so we have obviously been unsuccessful at removing all root material. Finer mulch is better for edibles and raised beds applied in a thin layer 1 inch or less. Thats what we have done, and thats how commercial composting companies keep their materials free of roots. I have three questions if you wouldnt mind answering: 1) I have a very crowded garden of ornamental perennials, annuals, and shrubs. I hired students to spread the chips.) What happens after two weeks? Now, until cardboard proponents publish evidence to the contrary, its pretty obvious that cardboard mulch interferes with gas diffusion. But to make a convincing argument you need to provide published research. In recent years, Ive wanted to provide more native soil to plants. Ironically I have used this method because in fact I do want earthworms to help my garden. After two years I removed the plastic and found happy healthy morning glory root systems!

Please do keep up your formal research, but be on guard for the influence of personal bias not only in reporting your results, but also in the way you construct your experiments. I am willing to do whatever to get rid of the bermuda grass runners. First off, ignore the advice from extension. Then I picked up several dozen heavy duty plastic 45 gallon open bottomed bins tapered from 21 at the top to 24 at the bottom.

Ive seen this difference between two plants from cuttings from the same parent plant only several feet apart with drippers that were within ~2% output of eachother. To be more clear, wood chips do not create dry and lifeless conditions underneath. As a Biology major in college, I do see your points scientifically.. however I do have a question. Is there any way to be certain you wont be introducing disease into your yard? If youve read the other posts linked at the beginning, youll see discussion about the problems with sheet mulches, which include newspaper, cardboard, and landscape fabric.

nematodes? The oxygen demand in the mesocosm was not high, so it didnt decrease much with just microbes. Linda, I have enjoyed reading through the Article and these comments. Also the cardboard and fabric eventually will raise to the top making your lawn look ugly. Thank you for your reply! I am glad that you are pursuing on-going lab work on the topic as it would indeed be nice to have more rigorous data on the subject. The more methods we have for consideration and experimentation, the better. Is that correct as well? Thanks for your time and interesting website! Id have four sets of this in a grid, for a total of 12 boxes. Right now there is NO published research, whatsoever, on cardboard mulches. Glad you fouund our information! You should never have your soil removed. Was thinking of planting mint. Coated papers (which are not corrugated cardboard) like butter boxes will take longer to decompose. Youll need to be more specific than this. Alongside this, If there was a substantial rising demand for woodchip we would find that it would no longer be a free resource, especially if arborists realised they could make a good living out of it. You are repeatedly making a strawman argument. cardboard mulching sheet recycled mulch fertilizer layer roll step enlarge permies e469 80ad Long time no see. I started shredding corrugated with little to no ink for mulch and it looks like it will be helpful but then I paused because of literature that cites toxicity. I reassured the writer that yes, your soil will recover. Is it possible to first smother with cardboard and then remove? Comes in 1,000 square foot rolls, available in bulkfrom vendors in the Marketplace. It is far easier to ask an arborist to drop a mixed load than to gather cardboard, remove staples and tape, and try to layer and overlap it enough to hope against the weeds rat-mazing their way through it. It is very handy for providing footing temporarily on steep slopes and preventing the soil from slipping when walking on it. Thank you for letting us know. There is no on-off switch for aerobic/anaerobic conditions. Cardboard restricts water and gas movement just like other sheet mulches. Anecdotal information is not equivalent to scientifically derived data. My practice is (a) mostly ignore poison ivy, as it was here first and has an ecological role to play. Wood chips are full of all kinds of fungi, meaning there are lots of spores there too. Fourth, lay down another chess board pattern, with the opposing layout to step 2 (that is, if there was a sheet there, now do not place a sheet, and vice versa). Wow, Ive read all of the comments here and the gardeners using the cardboard missed the whole point. So, if we are to take your statement at face value, do they not nurture soil life?

And you need to have something else that you want to grow there to keep new weeds from becoming established. As you know, WSU volunteers have an obligation to provide science-based information. Can you provide an updated link? After many decades of promoting gas diffusion through tillage and bare soil planting most US farm soils have organic matter content in the 1%-2% range. The only research Ive seen that uses cardboard is for termite studies (its their preferred food).



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